tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35348238.post6770133619931653658..comments2024-03-28T11:25:51.846+01:00Comments on Unspoken Cinema: Atkinson on minimalismBenoitRouillyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13525748892885946674noreply@blogger.comBlogger23125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35348238.post-48431170615460917322008-10-16T19:32:00.000+02:002008-10-16T19:32:00.000+02:00Yes I noticed it and added a lot of links to our p...Yes I noticed it and added a lot of links to our page on <A HREF="http://unspokencinema.blogspot.com/2008/03/pedro-costa-links.html" REL="nofollow">Pedro Costa LINKS</A>. But as I can't read portugese, I welcome your offer to translate a few things. That would be very nice.HarryTuttlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10721542203087536185noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35348238.post-56241001500524680942008-10-16T18:36:00.000+02:002008-10-16T18:36:00.000+02:00I've found a blog dedicated entirely to Costa at h...I've found a blog dedicated entirely to Costa at http://pedrocosta-heroi.blogspot.com/<BR/><BR/>It's mostly in Portuguese but I could be persuaded to translate some of the articles into English if asked nicely. The video interviews are especially insightful. By the way, the blog's header reads:<BR/><BR/>"Nobody knows what's going to happen when you switch a film camera on. Nobody ever knew and Carlos Ferraohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16078108010019508206noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35348238.post-86960987367489196072008-10-12T21:10:00.000+02:002008-10-12T21:10:00.000+02:00I agree. That's why there are more films than nece...I agree. That's why there are more films than necessary mentioned here, to remain inclusive and open to various options. but sometimes I'm worried that the wealth/variety of films might confuse people who are not too sure what CCC stands for, and ultimately it sounds like if we call CCC pretty much any "boring art-film" without reasoning.<BR/><BR/>So there is no "stamp of approval" yet, but HarryTuttlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10721542203087536185noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35348238.post-67591546117810802092008-10-12T19:45:00.000+02:002008-10-12T19:45:00.000+02:00This discussion and blog is more about asking thes...This discussion and blog is more about asking these questions and, errr, contemplating ourselves these films and their similarities and trends rather than creating a CCC stamp of approval.Carlos Ferraohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16078108010019508206noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35348238.post-54081855924632401602008-10-12T17:17:00.000+02:002008-10-12T17:17:00.000+02:00I know. It's a nebulous family of films. Because t...I know. It's a nebulous family of films. Because there are too many different films mentioned here. <BR/>But since the last blogathon I'm convinced that CCC is a new narrative style rather than a "genre" or an aesthetical movement. And this way it makes sense to me.<BR/>I don't know if everyone see it the same way though...HarryTuttlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10721542203087536185noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35348238.post-49843600740321935792008-10-12T11:34:00.000+02:002008-10-12T11:34:00.000+02:00I am still not convinced upon any stable idea of "...I am still not convinced upon any stable idea of "CCC" either!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35348238.post-24632341348225692132008-10-12T05:14:00.000+02:002008-10-12T05:14:00.000+02:00I agree with Harry - I don't think minimalism and ...I agree with Harry - I don't think minimalism and CCC are the same thing. Related - maybe all CCC is minimalist in some sense (though definitely a sense that would include Colossal Youth - which seems about as quintessentially a "contemplative" film as you could get), bit not all minimalism is CCC... I'm also not inclined to think of either minimalism or CCC as being particularly equated to weepingsamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11885871104310819374noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35348238.post-62918810737032796322008-10-10T19:23:00.000+02:002008-10-10T19:23:00.000+02:00Nice video. I didn't know it. We could say it's le...Nice video. I didn't know it. We could say it's less narrative than his latest <B>Happy-go-Lucky</B>, but I can still see the heavy editing of classic mise-en-scène there ( Countershots whereas a CCC would linger on a static wideshot during the conversation).<BR/><BR/>Well the word "minimalism" is ambiguous for us. I believe "Minimalism" is a wider trend than CCC, because it includes a lot more HarryTuttlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10721542203087536185noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35348238.post-87385620519955039952008-10-10T13:39:00.000+02:002008-10-10T13:39:00.000+02:00A final comment because I was answering other comm...A final comment because I was answering other comments instead of replying to the posted item itself. I don't consider CY to be minimalist at all. All those narrative and pictorial elements we have mentioned certainly make it more than real, or otherwise push outside minimalism. For me the word minimalist applied to cinema would be something like Mike Leigh where there is an honest effort to showCarlos Ferraohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16078108010019508206noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35348238.post-53866517114456169502008-10-10T00:22:00.000+02:002008-10-10T00:22:00.000+02:00it's difficult to explain all that is great in a C...it's difficult to explain all that is great in a CCC film, with a few lines. There is a lot more to say about Colossal Youth.<BR/><BR/>It's interesting to see that we have a different understanding of the defining criteria for CCC. It shows how undefined this alleged trend remains. What is it that doesn't do it for you in Colossal Youth?<BR/><BR/>I agree with Carlos about the non-compliance of HarryTuttlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10721542203087536185noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35348238.post-38539875820722095582008-10-09T20:53:00.000+02:002008-10-09T20:53:00.000+02:00Ah Ferrao. Nice to hear from you about this film (...Ah Ferrao. Nice to hear from you about this film (SMS, isn't the best medium for responses are they?). <BR/><BR/>I take your point on anthropological curiosity, that does go a long way. I could happily sit through "<A HREF="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7idi_5IaMrk" REL="nofollow">"Empire"</A> length single takes of London or Hong Kong, with just a little thought invested in it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35348238.post-85217835089199926322008-10-09T18:33:00.000+02:002008-10-09T18:33:00.000+02:00BTW, I didn't find the film hard to get through or...BTW, I didn't find the film hard to get through or boring at all. But maybe that's just my anthropological curiosity. Apichatpong's Blissfully Yours though... ZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZzzzzCarlos Ferraohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16078108010019508206noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35348238.post-21186908112592124662008-10-09T18:31:00.000+02:002008-10-09T18:31:00.000+02:00Taste is taste is taste. I am a big fan of CY and ...Taste is taste is taste. <BR/><BR/>I am a big fan of CY and Costa in general although I'm not too sure if CY is a good example of CCC. It certainly has some elements that would endear it to a CCC aesthetic like the documentary style of shooting, the long takes, the use of non-professionals and so on. But on the other hand it has so much that is radically opposite to CCC that it should immediatelyCarlos Ferraohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16078108010019508206noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35348238.post-27465129368723112322008-09-26T02:58:00.000+02:002008-09-26T02:58:00.000+02:00@HarryYou make a passionate case for the film's me...@Harry<BR/><BR/>You make a passionate case for the film's merits, Costa's cinema (as much as CCC) will be in fine stead so long as you are around..! <BR/><BR/>What you underline for me, with CY as a perfect illustration, is what it is that I am (and am not) looking for in contemplative/minimalist styled cinema. <BR/><BR/>I like your suggestion to open up a new post, with the intention of Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35348238.post-41517057542955350212008-09-24T22:53:00.000+02:002008-09-24T22:53:00.000+02:00Just to be clear, I would like to defend the merit...Just to be clear, I would like to defend the merits of Colossal Youth as a film, but I agree that I share some of your reservations as far as a strict model for CCC. The speech is a core element in Costa's film and it's not really mundane speech. The lines are scripted and highly meaningful, not only Desnos' letter but the topics evoked for metaphorical purpose. So to me it is an "intellectual" HarryTuttlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10721542203087536185noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35348238.post-63103519480934062082008-09-23T13:32:00.000+02:002008-09-23T13:32:00.000+02:00(I thought I posted this last night: if this turns...(I thought I posted this last night: if this turns up twice - sorry!)<BR/><BR/>This is an interesting conversation - I might as ll throw my 2 cents in. I think <I>Colossal Youth</I> is an outstanding film. It is more aestheticized than <I>Vanda’s Room</I> (sticking to Costa), and more obviously "presentational" - it's a story being told. (I suppose that makes it more Brechtian.) Though VR was weepingsamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11885871104310819374noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35348238.post-82623101225978935962008-09-22T17:33:00.000+02:002008-09-22T17:33:00.000+02:00Thats an even broader scope of topics to discuss t...Thats an even broader scope of topics to discuss than before, but I only feel adequate responding to one set of questions at this moment.<BR/><BR/><I>You criticize Costa for not doing justice to Brecht? But is it his point? Does he really claim that influence?</I><BR/><BR/>I, felt, Costa had lapsed into a twisted version of Brechtianism, whether he intended it so or not. This will be a differenceAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35348238.post-51725955005285661702008-09-21T22:42:00.000+02:002008-09-21T22:42:00.000+02:00I understand you express your taste, as do I. And ...I understand you express your taste, as do I. And you're right that this discussion is touching on the (subjective) validation of the CCC, or its mockery by its detractors. And of course we want to contemplate both sides of the debate on this blog. That's why I'm interested in figuring out, with your help, why you dislike this film. And you have the right to like a different set of CCC films thanHarryTuttlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10721542203087536185noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35348238.post-47582249173814104692008-09-21T21:29:00.000+02:002008-09-21T21:29:00.000+02:00Harry, your defense of Colossal Youth offers some ...Harry, your defense of <B>Colossal Youth</B> offers some fascinating co-ordinates, but I would want to stress again, that I pretend to know, and offer nothing beyond an opinion. That said, a few things I shall attempt to clarify:<BR/><BR/>Atkinson’s ‘pajamas’. His writing is quite witty, and the metaphor is weighted with irony, but I tend to think that it is not decidedly pejorative. Rather, thatAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35348238.post-69597361907424756482008-09-21T14:21:00.000+02:002008-09-21T14:21:00.000+02:00The "miserable hairshirt pajamas" is not a metapho...The "miserable hairshirt pajamas" is not a metaphore that translates well in French so it doesn't inspire me much, though I understand it's intended to be pejorative, right?<BR/><BR/>So what is inherently wrong with Brechtian cinema? <BR/><BR/>Serra goes a step deeper in this ascetic formalism, since he removes instant motivation for the behaviour we see on screen. While Costa still nurtures the HarryTuttlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10721542203087536185noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35348238.post-81603112139076484152008-09-20T15:10:00.000+02:002008-09-20T15:10:00.000+02:00In response to your question, I believe Costa took...In response to your question, I believe Costa took minimalism too close to a weird sort of drab-Brechtianism. In evidence; actually, being flaunted, was an overbearing usage of so many of the ascetic formalisms (and I mean he <I>really</I> raided the stock cupboard) associated with minimalism. It was here that I found <B>Colossal Youth</B> over-exploitative, it seemed that what he cared more for Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35348238.post-20852391524886791082008-09-20T13:13:00.000+02:002008-09-20T13:13:00.000+02:00Really? There are a few films that I believe hurt ...Really? There are a few films that I believe hurt the spirit of minimalist films by making a hollow parody of CCC, with only a formal copycat (let's leave out all dialogue, move slowly with long takes and use non actors) that don't know what they are doing with it. But <B>Colossal Youth</B> is not one of them, according to me. Costa doesn't go for strict realism, his mise en scène is clearly HarryTuttlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10721542203087536185noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35348238.post-32535745902784787232008-09-20T12:30:00.000+02:002008-09-20T12:30:00.000+02:00I for one, second his opinion on Colossal Youth, a...I for one, second his opinion on <I>Colossal Youth</I>, and 'overexploitation' (of minimalism) seems an appropriate description. Or even 'water torture' for that matter.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com