tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35348238.post1524508027102712894..comments2024-03-28T11:25:51.846+01:00Comments on Unspoken Cinema: CCC timeline 2008BenoitRouillyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13525748892885946674noreply@blogger.comBlogger22125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35348238.post-33685818071161640632011-12-12T19:43:58.727+01:002011-12-12T19:43:58.727+01:00sorry, I forgot to leave my contact: hetminani@gma...sorry, I forgot to leave my contact: hetminani@gmail.comhomeretminanihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03677767229405311301noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35348238.post-17455969668726992052011-12-12T19:35:41.339+01:002011-12-12T19:35:41.339+01:00Dear Harry,
Congrats for this wonderful site!
It w...Dear Harry,<br />Congrats for this wonderful site!<br />It was so revealing for me. I wanna ask you for a tab which does'nt exist yet, with the historical film titles, year by year, from Lumiere brothers till now.<br />Did you quit it for any reason? May I find it anywhere?<br />Thanks!homeretminanihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03677767229405311301noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35348238.post-50174983286251471962009-06-14T12:27:09.369+02:002009-06-14T12:27:09.369+02:00Oh, I'm sure we can agree that this is a matte...Oh, I'm sure we can agree that this is a matter of point of view!Matthew Flanaganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17377516945046894253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35348238.post-34338196700595618742009-06-14T09:34:34.124+02:002009-06-14T09:34:34.124+02:00It's not because a film is shot on location th...It's not because a film is shot on location that this place becomes explicitly identified on screen. Could you tell me in which area have been shot Raya Martin's films?<br />Besides, Indio Nacional has intertitles to explain the political events that are not entirely explicit in the images. It's not the same level of minimalism (lack of information).<br /><br />Well, if we can't HarryTuttlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10721542203087536185noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35348238.post-87072167346541622802009-06-13T02:04:26.105+02:002009-06-13T02:04:26.105+02:00I'm not sure about this - to my mind, the imag...I'm not sure about this - to my mind, the images alone <i>do</i> say something explicit, not least because films (and particularly ones like this) don't exist in, or emerge from, a vacuum. Those <i>are</i> the streets of Belfast on the screen, and although more familiar narrative content (with regard to the motivations you suggest) may be elusive, that fact doesn't rule out the "Matthew Flanaganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17377516945046894253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35348238.post-27911825515247075352009-06-11T09:26:50.613+02:002009-06-11T09:26:50.613+02:00We know what it represents, we know what events it...We know what it represents, we know what events it refers to, because of the title, because of the literature around the film, because of the history of the film. But not through the images alone.<br /><br />You know all that about the story because you are a British citizen aware of the real world context of this film. But the film itself doesn't say it. Imagine what would think a Japanese HarryTuttlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10721542203087536185noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35348238.post-51977462251386559402009-06-09T21:30:52.034+02:002009-06-09T21:30:52.034+02:00Sorry, I mean "explicit" in the sense th...Sorry, I mean "explicit" in the sense that the film is clear, direct, unambiguous and unreserved in its representation of sectarian killings in Belfast in the late 1980s. I'm not saying that there isn't implicit meaning present, as of course there is, but I think the structural principle of the film rests on making explicit a tacit "truth". MacLaverty's phrase &Matthew Flanaganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17377516945046894253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35348238.post-27897891469925150822009-06-09T18:15:27.037+02:002009-06-09T18:15:27.037+02:00Could we at least agree on the meaning of the word...Could we at least agree on the meaning of the words explicit and implicit? <br />Do you realise that the phrase "Elephant in the room" is a metaphor for something implicit?<br /><br />What is "explicit representation" in cinema to you?<br />If he wanted to make an explicit political film about a specific issue he wouldn't make a film that looks like any street gang rivalryHarryTuttlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10721542203087536185noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35348238.post-62967038701016998672009-06-09T16:52:29.110+02:002009-06-09T16:52:29.110+02:00"You can't say that this is explicit in a..."You can't say that this is explicit in any way as Clarke films it."<br /><br />This is where we'll have to agree to disagree, I suppose! To my mind, what he films (or, chooses to film), how he organises it (structurally) and how he films it (formally) is geared towards <i>explicitly</i> representing the political elephant in the room. I can't see how form and content could Matthew Flanaganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17377516945046894253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35348238.post-48612534283373137832009-06-09T11:41:06.059+02:002009-06-09T11:41:06.059+02:00Why any documentary, contemplative or not, would n...Why any documentary, contemplative or not, would not follow a killer whale hunting until she snaps a penguin or a seal... 10 times in a row? The CCC camera observes behavioural patterns rather than a dramatized plot. <br /><br />"an immense political significance and (unavoidable) contextual resonance"<br /><br />You can't say that this is explicit in any way as Clarke films it. HarryTuttlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10721542203087536185noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35348238.post-47842254364121450752009-06-09T02:31:38.585+02:002009-06-09T02:31:38.585+02:00Yes, it's an exceptional film in many ways! I ...Yes, it's an exceptional film in many ways! I guess part of what I'm saying is that it's emphatically <i>not</i> what I imagine a contemplative documentary on killer whales would be like - the form is attuned to the nature of the events (or "drama"), which carry an immense political significance and (unavoidable) contextual resonance. There's also nothing wrong with the Matthew Flanaganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17377516945046894253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35348238.post-13180512387308802452009-06-09T00:59:40.228+02:002009-06-09T00:59:40.228+02:00I give you that it's some kind of a conceptual...I give you that it's some kind of a conceptual dispositif (contraption), but no less than Akerman's D'Est (who films waiting lines on the sidewalk of Russian streets, from her car window), Benning's 13 Lakes or Geyrhalter's Our Daily Bread. <br />As you see I didn't use Clarke as a figurehead, it's just that film, and it's greyed out, because it's marginal and HarryTuttlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10721542203087536185noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35348238.post-82048589670246535072009-06-09T00:00:14.766+02:002009-06-09T00:00:14.766+02:00I appreciate that the device is used in other CCC ...I appreciate that the device is used in other CCC films, but it's not employed in quite the same way in <i>Elephant</i> (caveat: I'll have to reserve judgment on <i>D'Est</i> & <i>West of the Tracks</i> for the time being). Tarr's tracking shots, for example, can be very dynamic, but they're certainly not loaded with nearly the same amount of purposiveness. Clarke's Matthew Flanaganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17377516945046894253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35348238.post-49487871865105932532009-06-08T23:16:02.496+02:002009-06-08T23:16:02.496+02:00Matthew,
who said the CCC camera couldn't be d...Matthew,<br />who said the CCC camera couldn't be dynamic? As for direct and unforgiving I don't see the connection with CCC. Compare the mise en scène of Akerman's D'Est or De l'Autre Coté, Gallo's The Brown Bunny, Bartas' Seven Invisible Men, Wang Bing's West of the Tracks, Van Sant's Last Days, Reygadas' Batalla en el Cielo, Tarr's Satantango / HarryTuttlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10721542203087536185noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35348238.post-64168424410511128832009-06-08T22:41:46.800+02:002009-06-08T22:41:46.800+02:00Laurent Cantet directed "Class". Dumont...Laurent Cantet directed "Class". Dumont's films are "Life of Jesus", "Humanite", "Twentynine Palms", "Flanders", and (shockingly neglected by this year's Cannes) "Hadewijch". They are, I trust you would agree, "unequivocally contemplative"...Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10546265581296919974noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35348238.post-11704610568023324022009-06-08T22:34:12.131+02:002009-06-08T22:34:12.131+02:00I don't think the observation is contemplative...I don't think the observation is contemplative or understated, to be honest. The camera is like a heat-seeker, deliberate and meticulous, deeply involved rather than detached... Clarke's observational stance might be cold and/or neutral with regard to content, but the mise-en-scène (form) isn't: it's dynamic, direct, and unforgiving...Matthew Flanaganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17377516945046894253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35348238.post-46632771262377438972009-06-08T22:04:30.297+02:002009-06-08T22:04:30.297+02:00Matthew,
you confuse content and form.
"pers...Matthew,<br />you confuse content and form. <br />"persistently or morbidly thoughtful"<br />It's the observation that is calm, contemplative and understated, not the subject observed. The reason the observer is removed from the action is precisely because the narrative didn't introduce us to the protagonists (killer or victim), there is no melodramatic exposition to set up an HarryTuttlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10721542203087536185noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35348238.post-64696250689931684152009-06-08T21:36:02.648+02:002009-06-08T21:36:02.648+02:00If your definitions are criteria, the work of Dumo...If your definitions are criteria, the work of Dumont (everything), Martel (everything), Seidl ("Dog Days", "Jesus, You Know", "Import/Export", if not also the earlier nonfiction films), and, despite the volume of dialogue, Hong (everything) obviously fulfill them no less than the films and directors you've already selected.Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10546265581296919974noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35348238.post-8173497433734002232009-06-08T18:32:57.710+02:002009-06-08T18:32:57.710+02:00I agree - confrontation and contemplation shouldn&...I agree - confrontation and contemplation shouldn't be mutually exclusive as a rule, but here I think they are... <i>Elephant</i> is a purely visceral (and eviscerating) film - its purpose is to show rather than suggest, confront rather than imply. I'd suggest that Clarke isn't concerned with traditional "causality" because we are fully aware of the motivation behind these Matthew Flanaganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17377516945046894253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35348238.post-82054754391394236742009-06-08T17:45:46.779+02:002009-06-08T17:45:46.779+02:00Rob sica,
would you care to explain why, maybe?
M...Rob sica,<br />would you care to explain why, maybe?<br /><br />Matthew,<br />I don't understand your confrontational/contemplation dichotomy... why should they be mutually exclusive?<br />Being explicitly "violent" doesn't mean that the plot and images explicit the causality of these assassinations, like a conventional narrative would.<br />Garrel's style, a minimalist formHarryTuttlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10721542203087536185noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35348238.post-31377652869395759352009-06-08T16:03:39.710+02:002009-06-08T16:03:39.710+02:00Thanks for putting the graph together, Harry - it&...Thanks for putting the graph together, Harry - it's very useful to have a timeline like this, even if it does serve to throw up as many questions about inclusions as answers!<br /><br />One potential sore thumb (for me) is Clarke's <i>Elephant</i>, which has always struck me as far more confrontational than "contemplative". It's an extraordinary film, but one which derives Matthew Flanaganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17377516945046894253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35348238.post-91503515440494088832009-06-08T01:28:45.666+02:002009-06-08T01:28:45.666+02:00Bruno Dumont, Lucrecia Martel, Ulrich Seidl, and H...Bruno Dumont, Lucrecia Martel, Ulrich Seidl, and Hong Sangsoo should be included, no?Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10546265581296919974noreply@blogger.com