tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35348238.post116220170191491224..comments2024-03-28T11:25:51.846+01:00Comments on Unspoken Cinema: Roundtable 2 : Contemplation and GenresBenoitRouillyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13525748892885946674noreply@blogger.comBlogger25125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35348238.post-69756527050188622672007-01-25T02:02:00.000+01:002007-01-25T02:02:00.000+01:00Contemplative Porn : Winterbottom's 9 songs :pContemplative Porn : Winterbottom's <b>9 songs</b> :pHarryTuttlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10721542203087536185noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35348238.post-80602422464351057742007-01-22T15:06:00.000+01:002007-01-22T15:06:00.000+01:00I'm not sure if it is always true for Horror. They...I'm not sure if it is always true for Horror. They might postpone action till the last moment, but are we really in a state of contemplation when anxious and freigthened? The first Alien yes, but the others of the series are more action-driven I thought.<br /><br />I'm thinking of Luc Besson's <b>The Big Blue</b>, and Sofia Coppola's <b>Virgin Suicide</b> and <b>Lost In Translation</b>.<br /><br HarryTuttlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10721542203087536185noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35348238.post-41059118702485141782007-01-18T06:07:00.000+01:002007-01-18T06:07:00.000+01:00Maybe I don't even need to say this, but because t...Maybe I don't even need to say this, but because they rely on anticipation horror films are, by their nature, the slowest and, yes, most contemplative of genre flicks. "Alien", for example, would likely be unbearable for a mass audience if it weren't so freakin' scary.<br /><br />I don't know if it really qualifies as contemplative, but certainly Franju's "Eyes Without a Face" is very much a Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35348238.post-53467314590481705862007-01-18T01:52:00.000+01:002007-01-18T01:52:00.000+01:00Spielberg's debut, Duel, rarely use dialogs, and t...Spielberg's debut, <b>Duel</b>, rarely use dialogs, and the main action, between the 2 drivers is entirely a matter of visual syntax to build the tension of this road-movie thriller.HarryTuttlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10721542203087536185noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35348238.post-68934178105009601022007-01-17T17:16:00.000+01:002007-01-17T17:16:00.000+01:00Couple ideas from the horror side of things:
Glad...Couple ideas from the horror side of things:<br /><br />Glad to see Michael Kerpan mentioned K. Kurosawa -- his <i>Curse</i> and <i>Pulse</i> are among the most contemplative horror films ever made.<br /><br />I think there's probably also a case that could be made for McNaughton's <i>Henry: Portrait of a Serial Killer</i> as this sort of film. And I'm surprised nobody's mentioned Dumont yet -- Steve C.https://www.blogger.com/profile/01958138092537744506noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35348238.post-39291936395455085442007-01-16T20:21:00.000+01:002007-01-16T20:21:00.000+01:00It's likely that for German speakers that you are ...It's likely that for German speakers that you are absolutely correct; but in subtitle form (even with my smattering of Deutsche-spreche) I felt that <b><i>Aguirre</i></b> had a purity about it all its own...as in, I didn't even notice the narration.<br /><br />Perhaps start a new category of films that get away with contemplative attribution thanks in large part to language barriers?<br /><br />IJo Custerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08318512782250774559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35348238.post-48686827547317617412007-01-15T15:43:00.000+01:002007-01-15T15:43:00.000+01:00note : I was talking about Aguirre in my previosu ...note : I was talking about <b>Aguirre</b> in my previosu comment.<br /><br />Another film on the fence between narrative and contemplative (which is what we list here), is Bent Hamer's beautiful <b>Kitchen Stories</b>. The plot drive is mostly based on light gags and a certain melodrama, but the narration is quite minimalist and the scenes stretch long enough without dialogs to communicate a HarryTuttlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10721542203087536185noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35348238.post-15933912835430422642007-01-15T06:04:00.000+01:002007-01-15T06:04:00.000+01:00Re: Contemplative vampires and such, as it happens...Re: Contemplative vampires and such, as it happens <a href="http://forwardtoyesterday.com/2006/10/29/damn-secular-progressive-immigrant-vampyrs/">my post</a> in the vampire blogathon a few months back was semi-relevent. One part focused on Madden's "Dracula" film, which I don't really think is contemplative except that it's a ballet shot as a pretty traditional silent film, so maybe it is. <br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35348238.post-59456412122863223122007-01-15T03:13:00.000+01:002007-01-15T03:13:00.000+01:00I have to note that whatever else it is, Bela Tarr...I have to note that whatever else it is, Bela Tarr's <i>Damnation</i> is a pretty straightforward film noir, and a musical. A fairly honest musical, with two complete diegetic musical performances, and a major dance scene.weepingsamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11885871104310819374noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35348238.post-2771899179557632102007-01-14T21:20:00.000+01:002007-01-14T21:20:00.000+01:00To me, the voiceover narrator is a self-conscious ...To me, the voiceover narrator is a self-conscious narrative device, filling in what the image cannot tell by itself. So the commentary make it less "pure" contemplative. Aside from that and since it belongs to the genre-bending/precursor collection, the mise-en-scene and camerawork is especially observational and not didactic. There are magnificent wordless sequences lasting for ages.HarryTuttlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10721542203087536185noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35348238.post-36039334367063472192007-01-14T20:52:00.000+01:002007-01-14T20:52:00.000+01:00It's been too long since I have seen The Mission m...It's been too long since I have seen <i><b>The Mission</i></b> myself, but Roland Joffé strikes me as documentative in general -- <i><b>The Killing Fields</i></b> director, correct? <br /><br />How about <i><b>Aguirre: Wrath of God</i></b> (<i><b>Aguirre, Der Zorn Gottes</i></b>) while we're on the rainforest bent...Jo Custerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08318512782250774559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35348238.post-73245638592089504992007-01-14T13:00:00.000+01:002007-01-14T13:00:00.000+01:00Never heard of Electra-glide in Blue. Election 1 &...Never heard of Electra-glide in Blue. Election 1 & 2 are in theatre now in Paris, I'll try to see them this week.<br />The Mission, remind me of Roland Joffé's film, I saw it a long time ago, was it somehow contempaltive or only part of it?<br />Boorman's <b>The Emerald Forest</b> (1985) to some extend, is maybe a better candidate.HarryTuttlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10721542203087536185noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35348238.post-55746032625922225082007-01-13T19:43:00.000+01:002007-01-13T19:43:00.000+01:00Raining in the Mountain is to me one of the best w...Raining in the Mountain is to me one of the best wu xia pian I've seen, but different from the SB productions (it's a Taiwanese film anyway). <br />Perhaps I could add Cold Blade by Chu Yuan (at least the very poetic opening scene with the swords fight on the bloomed tree).<br /><br />On gangster, crime films, I'd add also the latest Johnnie To films such as PTU, Election 1&2, Exiled (and also Ouyang Fenghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11093127414849188851noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35348238.post-53140569112914339252007-01-13T17:09:00.000+01:002007-01-13T17:09:00.000+01:00Thanks, Marina--sounds excellent. I've been meanin...Thanks, Marina--sounds excellent. I've been meaning to watch this. <br /><br />I would second both <i><b>Touch of Zen</i></b> (I got this from Netflix 6 months ago, and still haven't sent it back!) and <i><b>Stranger Than Paradise</i></b>.<br /><br />To add to your "Road Movies," Harry, I'll mention <i><b>Electra-Glide in Blue</i></b>. <br /><br />It's sort of the working man's <i><b>Easy Rider</Jo Custerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08318512782250774559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35348238.post-74156119634180645312007-01-13T00:14:00.000+01:002007-01-13T00:14:00.000+01:00I don't think it's too surprising to find many roa...I don't think it's too surprising to find many road movies being contemplative films, as on a spiritual level, the act of wandering, traveling is in the way a quest of identity or of the one true self, an harmony with the self and the environment.<br /><br />I would add Paris Texas and other Wim Wenders, Foreign Land by Walter Salles, Gerry by Gus Van Sant, even Los Muertos by Lisandro Alonso Ouyang Fenghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11093127414849188851noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35348238.post-23372602721455533912007-01-12T23:15:00.000+01:002007-01-12T23:15:00.000+01:00Very good suggestions all around, keep them coming...Very good suggestions all around, keep them coming.<br /><br />I consider Climates to be very "contemplative", so if <b>Old Joy</b> (haven't seen it yet) is even more minimalist I'll add it to the chronology list.<br /><br />In the section "Road Movies", I would nominate Dennis Hopper's <b>Easy Rider</b>, Monte Hellman's <b>Two-Lane Blacktop</b>, Coppola's <b>Rain People</b>, Jim Jarmusch's <b>HarryTuttlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10721542203087536185noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35348238.post-36788196445238006222007-01-12T20:27:00.000+01:002007-01-12T20:27:00.000+01:00Johanna, if there's such a thing, I'd say Dancer i...Johanna, if there's such a thing, I'd say <em>Dancer in the Dark</em> is a <em>quiet</em> musical... In the end, I had the feeling that every song was born diegetically, by accident sounds that gradually form a rhythm and they probably were, but I can't say for sure. It seems to me that Trier used sound in the way that contemplative films use the frame - to prolong, to compose, to create Marinahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16324018240941018404noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35348238.post-47375808073816063392007-01-12T16:26:00.000+01:002007-01-12T16:26:00.000+01:00I'd suggest the name of Kiyoshi Kurosawa as the cr...I'd suggest the name of Kiyoshi Kurosawa as the creator of "contempative" pseudo-genre films. I wonder how much rivette he watched in his formative years. The significance of his films resides in the imagery and sounds (but not really the dialog itself).Michael E. Kerpan Jr.https://www.blogger.com/profile/14520243158889746324noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35348238.post-17549461469503077962007-01-12T13:50:00.000+01:002007-01-12T13:50:00.000+01:00The Australian Centre for the Moving Image (ACMI) ...The Australian Centre for the Moving Image (ACMI) recently screened Old Joy. Most film-goers would find this boring as hell (though it does have some beautiful meloncholy music by Yo La Tengo). There is very little dialogue and very little explanation of what has taken place in the past as reference for the present.<br /><br />It reminded me of Nuri Bilge Ceylan's Climates (Iklimer) which was Paul Martinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10965628567103267009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35348238.post-75840760843342721092007-01-12T12:55:00.000+01:002007-01-12T12:55:00.000+01:00hehehe.. :)
And in wu xia pian, I can also think o...hehehe.. :)<br />And in wu xia pian, I can also think of King Hu, particularly, Raining in the Mountains and Touch of Zen (but also Legend of the Mountain, Dragon Inn to an extent...), both very influenced by traditional Chinese arts, such as paintings, Chinese Opera... and in which Nature is a strong inherent component of the spirit of the film.<br />To go back on WKW, yes, I second your saying.Ouyang Fenghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11093127414849188851noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35348238.post-6780091267345417402007-01-12T04:07:00.000+01:002007-01-12T04:07:00.000+01:00I'm surprised Ouyang Feng hasn't posted in this th...I'm surprised Ouyang Feng hasn't posted in this thread yet - if Ashes of Time isn't a contemplative wuxia, I don't know what it is. I suppose as far as Wong Kar-wei can fit in a classification of "contemplative cinema" all his films are very strongly genre related - he works off genres: gangster films, melodramas, romantic comedy, even science fiction... <br /><br />Tarkovsky seems to provide weepingsamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11885871104310819374noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35348238.post-27254319716043023352007-01-11T23:26:00.000+01:002007-01-11T23:26:00.000+01:00I haven't seen Nadja. All I remember from the The ...I haven't seen <b>Nadja</b>. All I remember from the <b>The Wisdom of Crocodiles</b> is the atmosphere was kinda special. It also emphasized the human side of the vampire indeed.<br /><br />I like the mention of <b>Dancer in the Dark</b>. I'm not so sure about <b>Saddest Music of the World</b>... Maddin's <b>Dracula: Pages from a Virgin's Diary</b>, being a silent ballet would suit better. HarryTuttlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10721542203087536185noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35348238.post-54725269538590893772007-01-11T22:06:00.000+01:002007-01-11T22:06:00.000+01:00Marina has just reminded me of several films to ad...Marina has just reminded me of several films to add to the Netflix queue...<br /><br />I love that you suggested <i>Triplets</i>, Harry. That and Richard Linklater's <i>Waking Life</i> are easily my favorite animated films, and both just as easily fall into the evolving concept of the contemplative. <br /><br />Both invite the viewer to something new that can be analyzed and laughed at with the Jo Custerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08318512782250774559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35348238.post-50859264161071085532007-01-11T21:50:00.000+01:002007-01-11T21:50:00.000+01:00Haven't seen Trouble Every Day, but if I had to pi...Haven't seen <em>Trouble Every Day</em>, but if I had to pick a contemplative vampire film, I'd probably go with <em>The Wisdom of Crocodiles</em> or <em>Nadja</em>. The second one was quite gloomy and quiet, but it was long ago when I saw them. It'd be good to revisit them some time. <br />Oh, I guess <em>Nadja</em> has something noir-ish too.<br /><br />What about <em>Dancer in the Dark</em> asMarinahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16324018240941018404noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35348238.post-15252892257838856362007-01-11T20:25:00.000+01:002007-01-11T20:25:00.000+01:00I was thinking for examples :
Les Triplettes de B...I was thinking for examples : <br /><b>Les Triplettes de Belleville</b> in the Animation genre. There is hardly a plot (the kidnapping of the bicyle boy, and a mysterious mafia traffic) which is ironically a self-derision because of the absurdity of the events. A fantastic sound design substitutes almost entirely dialogues with great effect, we have no problem understanding the scenes and follow HarryTuttlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10721542203087536185noreply@blogger.com